tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3405476407893826316.post3026850950600210883..comments2023-11-02T10:16:27.651-04:00Comments on A BASEBALL GEEK: From the basement December 10Eric Tomshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00632341548970196518noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3405476407893826316.post-74997159967660559982007-12-11T19:06:00.000-05:002007-12-11T19:06:00.000-05:00Pete - I felt bad about the STFU, and removed it p...Pete - I felt bad about the STFU, and removed it pretty quickly, and I apologize fully now. But you were accusing us of having no life....which may be true. But still. I encourage you to keep hanging out at BTF, as it is an awesome forum, which is best served by having as many points of view as possible - yours is certainly welcome.Gutshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04050650594683385761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3405476407893826316.post-88798055656430021412007-12-11T11:15:00.000-05:002007-12-11T11:15:00.000-05:00I don't consider myself a Luddite despite having b...I don't consider myself a Luddite despite having been born in 1940, and I troll through BTF on a daily basis. But I've pretty much stopped even looking at any comments/threads, and just peruse the articles that interest me. Frankly I got tired of plowing through all the "snarky," cutesy stuff (that seemed more designed to showcase the poster's IQ than it was to add anything to the discussion), looking for any comments of substance. Pity, because as you folks have pointed out there are a lot of substantive comments to be found. It just isn't worth my time trying to pick them out of the white noise submitted by many posters.Oldcurmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03199879735399789917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3405476407893826316.post-52928905891956588622007-12-11T09:32:00.000-05:002007-12-11T09:32:00.000-05:00The group of contributors and posters have a lot o...<I>The group of contributors and posters have a lot of collective baseball knowledge - quite a lot are actively involved in SABR, some were hired by MLB teams partially (and sometimes more) due to BTF/Primer exposure, and others have used the community to move on to other wonderful projects such as the indispensable Hardball Times.</I><BR/><BR/>Most of the users, like myself, just use it to distract our selves from our boring boring lives.<BR/><BR/><I>BTF crowd were horny to have the old Moneyball argument all over again.</I><BR/><BR/>There's a lot of things we're horny for, you should check out the BBTF Wiki, but the Moneyball thing?<BR/><BR/>Not so much.Ironcheffiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12662284383191999546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3405476407893826316.post-50700515770051711512007-12-11T09:31:00.000-05:002007-12-11T09:31:00.000-05:00What you're witnessing is bloggers vs. bad, anti-i...<I>What you're witnessing is bloggers vs. bad, anti-intellectual writing.</I><BR/><BR/>an early poster at BTF this morning sort of shrugged his shoulders at the comments here concerning BTF by saying, 'well, if you don't like it, move along', or something to that effect; but too many posters at BTF won't take the same advice when talking about mainstream writers.<BR/><BR/>I have issues with them, as well; I've crossed swords with local Oriole beat writers on the air occsaionally (I spent an incredibly frustrating half-hour debating Orioles marketing practices with Peter Schmuck on the radio last winter; I'll never bother talking to him again) and through written word more often, and find them to be less informed and/or interesting than most of the posters at my website - but I don't call them names or beat the horse incessantly or spew venom at them. I can be dismissive, poke fun, or debate an issue briefly, and then move on. Too often certain BTF threads read like Holy Wars; I do like my baseball taken a bit less seriously. Too much of the other stuff is just polarizing and preaching to the choir.<BR/><BR/>There ain't nothing wrong with it, per se, but it's not really accomplishing anything - or even entertaining anyone.belfry bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02378426036064608626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3405476407893826316.post-56899247532477658172007-12-11T09:29:00.000-05:002007-12-11T09:29:00.000-05:00I do feel a bit like I have to jump in and say a f...I do feel a bit like I have to jump in and say a few words in defense of BTF.<BR/><BR/>Yes, it's a very contentious group. However, the recent thread was more contentious than average as it really was on a topic that struck a never with a lot of people. I'm just glad that Pete's first exposure to BTF wasn't a Bonds/steroids thread.<BR/><BR/>But it's definitely a tough group. It's not just tough on non-stats guys - Law and Neyer take a lot of heat there. Even I run into a tough crowd there with things that I write at times and that's ostensibly my home turf.<BR/><BR/>In a lot of ways, BTF/Primer is a spiritual descendant of rec.sport.baseball on usenet.<BR/><BR/>I do hope you take time to read a few of the more productive threads. The group of contributors and posters have a lot of collective baseball knowledge - quite a lot are actively involved in SABR, some were hired by MLB teams partially (and sometimes more) due to BTF/Primer exposure, and others have used the community to move on to other wonderful projects such as the indispensable Hardball Times.Dan Szymborskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14262635227361778804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3405476407893826316.post-441230279621717172007-12-11T08:56:00.000-05:002007-12-11T08:56:00.000-05:00I don't think the argument is necessarily "blogger...I don't think the argument is necessarily "bloggers" vs. "the Man"; it's just that the MSM routinely showcases it's ignorance and arrogance at the same time, and they're called out on it. <BR/><BR/>They're used to being the gatekeepers, and they're the ones who vote on the major awards as well, and sometimes when you read their stuff, well, it's hard NOT to feel like a lot of these guys are proud of their ignorance, especially if it separates them from the teeming mass of bloggers.<BR/><BR/>Some of these guys seem to think that just because they've written about something for 30 years, that makes their opinions more valid than someone else's---but it DOESN'T. You earn your credibility and respect one column at a time, and with the explosion of information and analysis, a lot of these guys are being exposed as frauds---it's natural that they'd turn dismissive, defensive, or both.<BR/><BR/>What you're witnessing is bloggers vs. bad, anti-intellectual writing.salvohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10669497530494668160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3405476407893826316.post-28274223605011132452007-12-11T08:49:00.000-05:002007-12-11T08:49:00.000-05:00Pete,Just echoing Belfry and John B. I think you ...Pete,<BR/><BR/>Just echoing Belfry and John B. I think you jumped in during a particularly charged thread at a time when, to be honest, most of what could have been said had already been said and thus people were just hanging around spoiling for a fight. It happens.<BR/><BR/>I think, overall, the discourse at BTF is higher than your average web forum. Much higher, actually. It gets heated from time to time, but that's the exception, not the rule.<BR/><BR/>All of that said, it's handy to see how an "outsider" for lack of a better term perceives those of us who live at BTF. We have to face the fact that we aren't always as smart or civil as we think we are, and we need to be mindful of it going forward.<BR/><BR/>Lurk around a while. You'll get a better sense of the rhytms of the place and know which threads aren't worth entering and which ones are. Based on our conversations, I have a strong feeling that you fit in with the crowd better than you may think.<BR/><BR/>And no, that's not an insult. ;-)Craig Calcaterrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00190345915954808542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3405476407893826316.post-3325645336264607972007-12-11T08:14:00.000-05:002007-12-11T08:14:00.000-05:00Peter:I’m sorry if you got a bad response on BTF--...Peter:<BR/><BR/>I’m sorry if you got a bad response on BTF--it happens, especially in ‘hot button’ threads. Anyway, my handle there is “Successfully evading natural selection since 1965” and my comment was just above yours (post# 261). At any rate, I do hope you’ll stick around. I enjoy this blog and your comments on BTF. <BR/><BR/>I noticed you’re not much older than me. Heh … I know what you mean when you wrote “<I>But after Saturday nite I realize that I've only been on the perimeter of 2.0 baseball conversation. I'm a baseball charlatan in comparison to these folk @ BTF. I think I should rename this blog, " I thought I was a baseball geek." To rip off High Fidelity, I'll be one of the Dark Ages baseball fans executed during the BTF baseball revolution.</I>”<BR/><BR/>I’ve been sent to the guillotine a few times by bloggers since I don’t fully embrace the sabermetric model. There is a human element of the game that cannot be measured and I take that into account in my writing. I also think bunting is still a valid strategy if used intelligently--I do realize that it depresses scoring over a season but it needs to be used in games to make sure that you can get a crucial run across. The season isn’t measured by who scores the most runs but how many times you score more runs than the other team.<BR/><BR/>That is why I penned articles dealing with the occasional use of the bunt--the Jays were trying for 4-6 run innings in games where only a run or two was needed for a win. The philosophy of maximizing offense over a full season doesn’t always translate into wins. The D-Backs this year was a good example of this phenomena. If you win 80 games by four runs or more yet lose 82 by 1-2 runs you may end up with a superior RS/RA over the course of a season but not a superior won/loss record. <BR/><BR/>A team can only play one game at a time and that’s how you have to manage them. <BR/><BR/>Best Regards<BR/><BR/>JohnJohn Brattainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12556478291131951192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3405476407893826316.post-32886008289986803402007-12-11T07:56:00.000-05:002007-12-11T07:56:00.000-05:00Very well said.I'm even more of a Luddite, born in...Very well said.<BR/><BR/>I'm even more of a Luddite, born in '52. I've been a writer in cyberspace for a good while, though, writing a regular column for the Orioles Hangout since '99 and for my own site, Birds in the Belfry, for the past six seasons.<BR/><BR/>I came to BTF when they linked an article of mine based on a discussion then-GM Jim Beattie had with fantasy campers in Florida. When I came to the site after a couple of comments were made on my own message board, I was surprised at the wealth of information, the bright minds, and the dark underbelly of incivility. (The discussion there was centered around the authenticity and accuracy of my column; though a lot of folks applauded what I'd written, everything including the background of my parents seemed to come up at one time or another over the next 48 hours.)<BR/><BR/>My own message board is a lot like what you describe...about 50 regulars who speak to each other in respectful, if occasionally teasing/mocking tones and rarely in more heated ones...so this was quite a shock.<BR/><BR/>That said, I became a regular reader and occasional poster. That being said, I could do without the 'I'm smarter than you' tone, along with the vitrol towards 'traditional' media, the Yankee, Red Sox, and Mets fans who come down hard on anyone who suggests the sun doesn't revolve around them, etc, etc.<BR/><BR/>But there's a lot to be said for the place. If it wasn't snarky, it probably wouldn't be as funny. There's a place for everyone in the cyber-universe, and BTF is the place for those who think they are the Smartest White Guy in the Room, and they'll be glad to take you on and prove it. But there are plenty of other folks there, too.<BR/><BR/>I saw the fellow with the STFU aimed at you and thought, 'man, this is nasty, even for BTF.' I'm glad I get to 'meet' you so I can aplogize on the site's behalf, even if I'm not quite representative of the 'typical' participant. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, BTF brought a lot of new readers to my place, which was nice, and it's brought me to other sites I've enjoyed, as I expect to enjoy yours.<BR/><BR/>Keep on truckin', I enjoyed your thoughts.<BR/><BR/>Happy holidays!<BR/>bob @ birdsinthebelfry.combelfry bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02378426036064608626noreply@blogger.com